1983

Rishi Valley 1983

Rishi Valley 1st Talk with Students 12th December 1983

Krishnamurti: What would you like me to talk about?

Student: Fear.

K: You know we have been talking with the teachers, educators, for the last ten days, would you not like to know what we discussed?

S: Yes sir.

K: We talked about what is going to happen to you, as students. What is your future? And also we talked about, the danger of the world, tremendous catastrophes that are going on in the world, the nuclear bomb, the wars, the over population of this country, disease, poverty, tremendous unemployment throughout the world. And I believe there are forty wars going on at the present time. And you, when you leave this place, you are going to face all that: overpopulation unemployment, and if you are going to pursue a career - for that career, of a particular job with about another three thousand people after it. So we talked about that. We said, how are you, as students, going to face all that-intelligently or just follow the routine, the pattern, getting a job, if you can, getting married and settling down. You may be awfully clever, but cleverness is not intelligence. We talked about all that.

We also talked about whether Rishi Valley, the educators here, could help you to be free of fear which we are going to talk about now. Whether you are afraid, not only to pass examinations, but general fear - fear of your parents, fear of your teachers, fear of your friends and so on. We talked a great deal about that. And also we talked about whether you can be a good human being. The word `good' means, an unbroken human being, not fragmented, a whole being. We went into that very carefully.

And I thought you should know what we discussed, because it is your responsibility also, to help the teachers to see, that you have no fear here - that when you leave, you are not just really clever boys and girls, because there are millions of clever boys and girls - but, who are really intelligent. We went into the question of what is intelligence, we will go into that with you, if you permit us during the next three talks. So let us talk over together this morning, whether you can be free of fear - that is what you wanted - didn't you?

And what is your future? This is a very serious question - not only your future, but also the future of the educators, the teachers here - and so, what is the future of mankind, the future of the world. They are destroying animals, all over the world. I believe over fifty million whales have been killed, elephants are disappearing, there are very few tigers left and the dolphins - you know about the dolphins - do you? Yes? Have you been told about them? They are marvellous animals. I used to know a friend who had a private dolphin, in his backyard - he kept it there, until the government found out that he had it and they asked him to remove it, put it back in the ocean or into a larger tank. They are extraordinary animals, great intelligence, I won't go into all that because I don't want to entertain you with stories.

If I may go on with what I am saying about the future, what is your future, the future of the educators here, and so the future of mankind. That is very important to discuss. Now don't keep silent, please, discuss, question, argue, don't sit there without expressing yourself, whether you express it badly or well, does not matter, it is good to express yourself verbally, clearly, if you can. Because we are going to discuss after I have talked. See that your minds are active. The other day nearly two months ago, I was in California. There was a car in front of me - I was being driven by a friend - with a sticker on the bumper, which said, `question all authority' - and you are going to question, this morning with me. You are going to argue, doubt, not believe - question so that your brains become active, not just merely gathering information, memorizing and passing some silly examination, and equally get a silly job.

So, we are going to talk over this morning, first, we will come to the question of fear later, what is your future? This applies to the smallest child here to your `A' level or `O' level, or 12th or whatever it is. What is your future? If you are lucky enough to pass some exams, enter college or university and then seek a job, if your father is fairly powerful politically or locally, then you will fall into the trap, which he has created for you, comfortably or uncomfortably, and then settle down for the rest of your life struggle, conflict, unhappy, miserable, caught in a wheel like a rat, and that is what your future is going to be. Wars, tremendous unemployment, even though you may have a good job, if there is a war, not in India but in Russia, or China or in Europe, all of you will be affected. Face all this - look at all this.

S: How do you connect the problem of a career with a war, and even a mediocre person will go and take up something as a career.

K: What is the relationship between a war and a career and - what else? S: A mediocre person.

K: Are you mediocre? All of you? You know what that word means? The word etymologically, that is, the root meaning of that word - going half the way up the hill and never going to the top of the hill. You understand? You might have a good job either in Madras, in Bombay, or in Delhi - or even in Europe and America - you will still remain mediocre. You may be excellent in your job, but your thinking, your feelings will be mediocre, ordinary. And education throughout the world is turning out mediocre people, without any integrity, without any quality of beauty and sensitivity and so on. So the question which the boy asked was: what is the relationship between wars, career, and mediocrity. Right? Was that the question? Don't be nervous - that is your question, isn't it? No? What do you think is the relationship of a war in India or Pakistan or China with another country and your own particular job. What is the relationship between the two or is there no relationship?

S: (Inaudible)

K: Come over here - you don't mind sitting next to me?

S: No.

K: Good of you. Now what is the question?

S: I said there is no connection - because both are trying to earn a living. You said a person in India - what is the connection between the career, I thought that was what you were trying to say.

K: I am not trying to say - you are trying to say. Don't be nervous - you can say what you like.

S: I am saying both are trying to earn a living - that's all.

K: Yes sir - and what is the relationship between earning a livelihood and war? That is your question - isn't it?

S: No, what I was trying to say was - even if you are educated after a career, you are not going to, and the person who is not after it, both are going to experience, I mean the war or whatever it is.

K: Do you understand what she is saying?

N: Everybody is going to experience the war, in spite of the career.

K: Is that it? Are you experiencing the war in Lebanon - what is going on there? You know there is a war in Lebanon. One group against another group, Christian, Muslims, Syrians against Israel, and so on and so on. There is tremendous murder going on there. Right? Are you related to that?

S: Not at the moment. But may be - K: What do you mean by - by not at the moment.

S: I mean - if is in India - K: No darling, just listen. Are you related to what is happening there or not at all?

S: Yes, in some way.

K: What way?

S: Because, I mean it is happening in a place - and you know of it - K: Then what is your feeling about it, what is your relationship?

S: Sir, mediocre people like us are creating war.

K: Would you come over here - I like a boy and a girl - that is better. What sir? Don't be nervous - I am also nervous - sit comfortably - what were you saying? Mediocre people create wars. Do you understand what he said, he said - mediocre people like us, including him, including you are responsible for creating wars. You agree to that, why? It is easy to agree, but why?

S: We have some ideas and we don't want them to be broken. And so for these ideas, we fight.

K: That is right. Perfectly right. You have ideas that you are Indian. Right? That you are a Hindu and across the border the Muslim thinks he is a Muslim, because that is an idea. And also there are totalitarian countries like Russia, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Rumania, Hungary and so on and all those countries - including Russia have one set of ideas. Right? And democratic countries have another set of ideas - they are fighting with each other. So, would you consider all ideas are mediocre? Use your brain. Would you consider all ideas, all ideals are mediocre, which create wars? Come on old boy, argue, discuss, don't accept what I say, do you understand, think it out. Think out for yourself if ideas, ideals, are separating people - like India, Russia, you follow - nationalities. Nationalities are creating wars. Right? Agree? So, don't be national.

S: If I am a national I will be helping to create wars.

K: That's right - so, would you stop being a national calling yourself a Hindu, or a Parsi or a Sikh, or a Muslim - you know all that business. But you may say, yes I like the idea, you are quite right but inside I will be a Hindu still. That will be hypocrisy - won't it? So, would you? If you are not, then you are moving away from mediocrity. So you see sir, wars are created by tribes. Wars have existed in this world, for the last six thousand or seven thousand years, wars practically every year all over the world and we are still having wars after all these long centuries of evolution; and these wars are caused by ideals, religious ideals, national ideals, and ideals created by thought - which is, I am a Hindu, you are a Muslim, I am a communist, you are a democratic and so on. This is the world you are going to face, whether you have a good job or not. So what is your future? Answer my question sir - what is your future? You understand? You are the result of long series of movements in evolution, you are here now. Your brains have evolved from a very minute cell to this very, very complex brain - you have studied biology. And this brain has become mediocre, because we are frightened, we are nationalistic, we want to follow the same old pattern, so we have become mediocre. You may be very clever. You may be a scientist, you may be an engineer and so on, but your feelings, your thinking is very primitive. So you are still mediocre. Now what will you do about it? Will you break through the pattern? If you don't break through the pattern now, your future is what you are now. Right? Is it clear? You understand what I am saying - that if I don't change now, my future will be exactly what I am now, slightly modified. S: Sir, can one be part of the system of examination, job, etc. and yet not be mediocre?

K: It all depends - you might never pass exams, you might never go through college, universities and a job, yet remain mediocre or you might go through all that process and may not be mediocre - it all depends on the quality of your brain - how you think, how you feel, what your sense of appreciation of the world. Do you understand what I am saying, have I made myself clear?

S: Then there seems to be a contradiction between physical reality and what we aspire to.

K: What is the physical reality?

S: Having a job - after doing examinations.

K: You have to go through examinations. Let us take that. That is actuality - that you have to do. Right? And where is the other?

S: You feel that it is not the most important thing.

K: I personally don't. But your fathers may, your government may, your society may. I never passed through any examination at all. I am still alive. So what is the contradiction?

S: Where does exactly mediocre stand for us to pass over it. Where do we draw the line?

K: Do you know you are mediocre? Or are you to proud to acknowledge that? If you are honest to yourself - are you honest to yourself, any of you? If you are not honest to yourself, or you ask yourself - are you mediocre? Wanting to follow the same old pattern.

S: Perhaps I want to.

K: Then accept it - you are mediocre. But if you don't want to, that is what the girl asked, if you don't want to, how do you break through this. Right? You tell me. Don't let me tell you. But you tell me how to break, how to go beyond it?

S: This routine of job, then marriage and all that will perhaps give you a security sir.

K: Yes, so, are you seeking security?

S: No one wants to be alone - so that is the ultimate thing? Like no one would like to be in a routine job, marriage, and everything. Everyone wants to have that because no one want to be alone.

K: Now just a minute - what do you mean by that word alone? Careful, careful. Just think of that word - what it means - alone. You know the word alone means all one - that is the dictionary meaning, the root meaning of that word alone means - all one. You mean isolated.

S: Yes.

K: Each person feels isolated, why?

S: Because, everyone wants company, at least I do.

K: Why?

S: We come back to fear, sir.

K: That's all. Which means what? Because you are afraid, go on, pursue it, sir, don't stop there. Find out.

S: You are afraid, and you want someone to share that feeling with you.

K: Which, you want somebody to support you, encourage you, give you comfort, to say, very well, old girl, and so on and so on. Right? So, you depend on somebody - why? Think it out.

S: Again we come back to fear - because you are scared.

K: So, you are scared, you are frightened therefore you depend. Now when you depend on somebody what happens? Think it out.

S: You don't use your brain.

K: No, think it out. See the consequences of that. You know what I mean by consequences. Now, what does it mean - I am attached to you - you are my friend and what happens? In being attached to you I become...

S: My security lies in you.

K: Which means that I depend on you. Go on, pursue it, go into it.

S: If this attachment breaks there might be sorrow - so again there is fear.

K; So when you are attached the consequences are, fear - right? - pain, jealousy - when I am attached to you and you might look at the other person and I get jealous of you. Right? So I am jealous, I get angry, in all that where is my security? Because you are seeking security through dependence and that very dependence denies your security. Right? Do you see it? Use your brain, don't stop there. So how do you find security? Every human being, all of you here need security. That means what - when you say security and you agree, what does that mean?

S: It means I want to have no fear.

K: No sir - security.

S: But I want to feel secure.

S: Protected, want to feel, we want protection.

K: What does it mean? Go on? To be secure, right?

S: You hold on to something, not stand by yourself.

K: No, you know - look, you are all secure here - aren't you? Secure, you have a room to sleep in, bed, clothes, water to wash, and good food - is it good food here?

A: Yes

K: All agree - do you all agree you have good food?

S: Mediocre food sir.

K: Would you like to have it improved?

A: Yes sir.

K: You see how quickly you react to that. So food is very important, isn't it?

K: To be secure means, to have food, clothes, shelter and money. If that is assured you are physically secure. Right?

S: I need some company.

K: Yes, yes - company, friends - you call all that security. Now, that woman there, carrying the burden, very poor, she has no security. Right? From day to day - she lives - frightened, hungry, dirty, but she carries on. So, is there security when people are divided into communities? Which means - when a nation is divided against another nation there will always be opposition, there will always be wars. Therefore the very nationality is denying your security. Do you see that? So, will you be free of nationality? Don't say, yes and go back to nationality.

S: I can't say because, you might feel it but deep inside, you say, OK, I am a Hindu - and I mean you have that feeling.

K: Then wipe it out because that is going to cause war.

S: (Inaudible)

K:I agree - what is next, first you must have physical security. But that physical security is denied to people when there is war.

S: Sir, a small community understands you better than a big community-so nationality is useless.

K: This is a small community, where we live - right? Do we understand each other, help each other, be affectionate to each other?

S: Not to all, to some.

K: So sirs, come back to our question: what is your future? What is the future of each one of you? And if I am your parent, I will be very, very concerned about it. I might try to get you a job, get you to marry and all that stuff in India, but what is your future?

S: Sir, how are we supposed to know our future?

K: You can't. But you can know what you are now. Right?

S: I think it depends on your way of thinking and your parents way of thinking.

K: The parents way of thinking, and the way you think now. If you think in terms of nationality, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim and so on, then the future will be what you are now. Agreed? Come on sir.

S: You used the word, break down the barrier, once you break down the barrier, where do we go?

K: Once you break down the barrier, where do you go? What is the barrier before you go, what do you call a barrier? Nationality is a barrier?

S: No.

K: Why not, it is causing war. Don't you think it is causing the war? So, that is a barrier. Then if you don't belong to any nationality, what are you? A human being - aren't you? Which is what?

S: Sir, even if there is no nationality here, or suppose the world is one, but even then there is the question of a job, examination, marriage later on.

K: Yes sir, but our whole attitude, our whole way of living would be different, wouldn't it? I may get married, you may get married, get a job, but our whole outlook may not be limited.

S: If only students in Rishi Valley follow this and the whole world goes the other way - we are the ones to suffer.

K: If all of you here followed or thought out, or worked out, and are free of nationality and the rest of the world did not do what you are doing, then what happens to you?

S: What happens to us?

K: Think it out. Either you will be smothered, or you will be smothered, or destroyed by the majority, or the majority might join you, because they might see you have sense. They might see how logical it all is, they might join you.

S: Suppose, they do not realize it.

K: Then you carry on your way.

S: Sir, what happens if the majority thinks that they are making sense?

K: If the majority thinks that they are making sense - is it sense to have wars every year?

S: They think so.

K: I know, I know they think their way of living is very sane, rational, and rather stupid. I have told them that old boy - I have discussed with them. They say, leave me alone. Right? And you come along and say, what a stupid way of living, perpetually at war. Right? And you say, don't be nationalistic; either I say I accept you and begin to put away my nationality. But very few people do this, they talk about it. Do you understand? Very few people actually say, I won't be a Hindu, I won't be a Hindu, I won't be a Catholic or Protestant, nothing.

S: We cannot really dissolve this barrier, because we have to pay taxes, we have to follow certain duties.

K: Of course sir - when you buy a stamp part of it goes to support wars. Right? If you telephone from here to your home, what you pay goes to support war. So what will you do? Not telephone, not write letters, or would you attack the thing much deeper? Attack the thing deeper, which is, nationality, which is the separate religious groups, I am a Hindu, you are a Muslim, I am a communist, you are a Democrat, you follow. This division throughout the world, is destroying the world. You see it, it is happening there - in Beirut - see this. So to think this way is mediocre, to live that way is mediocre.

Now let us come back. You are frightened. Let us talk a little bit about fear. We are going to talk four days together, I hope you don't mind four days. We are going to talk to each other, the day after tomorrow and so on. Now what is fear? You tell me. You think out carefully and tell me what is fear.

S: Fear is: what happened in the past, something that is going to frighten you.

S: What he says is, that something which has happened in the past and you doesn't want it to be repeated for the fear.

K: Right. You have done something in the past that has caused pain and you want that not to be repeated, and so that causes fear. Right? Now you are afraid also of the future, you might have an accident, you might fall ill, you might be scolded. So just a minute - you are afraid of the future. Are you afraid now sitting here? Careful, think it out. Let us begin again: you are afraid of the past, you are afraid of the future - are you afraid now?

S: You mean at the present?

K: At the present.

S: I am afraid of the future.

K: No darling - you don't mind if I call you darling. You are afraid of the past. I have done something and I am frightened. And also I might be frightened of the future - what might happen - what will happen. So, you are afraid of the past, you are afraid of the future. As the present is now - you are sitting here.

S: We might be afraid of what people might think of us.

K: That is future.

S: Right now, sitting.

K: Are they doing it now? You don't know. So at present - be careful in your thinking, precise - future, past, and there is the present, which is now you are sitting here. So is fear always in the future or in the past? Think it out carefully. Always in the future, always in the past, not in the present.

S: Perhaps we have fear in the present.

K: Are you afraid now, sitting there?

S: Yes.

K: Of what?

S: Afraid of people around me.

K: Careful, careful, you have not thought it out. Think it out sir, before you say anything.

S: It is not actually fear. It is your opinion.

K: You are afraid what might happen. You are afraid what has happened. Right? So, at present sitting here, you might think of the future and get frightened or think of the past and get frightened. So, fear is either in the past or in the future, but never in the present. What do you say to that. Don't agree. Right? So, what are you frightened of? S: Of what might happen.

K: Or what has happened. Now, which means what?

S: I don't want anything to happen.

K: No darling, sir, think it out. What has happened, what does it mean. The memory, the remembrance of something unpleasant, the remembrance, memory. Right? And the future is what might happen also from the past. The future, which means, it might happen. So, both are the process of thinking. Clear? Be clear - careful. Don't accept a thing anybody says, think it out. I am afraid of the past - that is, something happened two days ago which gave me fear and I think about it. Right? It has happened, it is finished, but I think about it. Right? The thinking about it causes fear, thinking about what has happened. Thinking about what might happen, which is the future, thinking about the past, thinking about the future, causes fear. Clear? I am thinking for you. You are not thinking. So, thinking about the past, thinking about the future causes fear. So thinking creates fear.

S: So, are you trying to say, why think?

K: No, I am trying to point out to you, the cause of fear, which is thinking about the past, thinking about the future, the thinking itself is the movement of fear. Then what will you do with thinking? You have to think to get from here to there. This is a little too difficult. Do you understand what I am saying? You work it out carefully. Take time. Thinking about the past, thinking about the future, causes fear, pain. Fear is pain.

S: Thinking spontaneously need not cause fear, the present has no fear.

K: Are you thinking spontaneously? She says thinking causes...

S: But all thinking is from the past, you can't think spontaneously.

K: That is right, you have got it. All thinking is from the past, all thinking is not only the past but also the future. Right? This is a little difficult. So what will you do about thinking? You have to think - to put on your clothes, you have to think, when you clean your teeth you have to think, when you comb your hair you have to think, or go to the barber to get it cut short, you have to think. Right? So you have to think. So then what? Thinking causes fear but yet you have to think. Find out. Thinking about the future and the past causes pain, fear, but you also have to think. To put on your dress, put on your trousers, to listen to the educators, who inform you about mathematics, geography, you have to think. So, where do you have to think, which does not cause fear? You understand my question?

S: When you form an opinion about it.

K: Opinion about what?

S: Like, suppose, there is something which you are not certain about. It can happen.

K: No darling, listen, first get the principle that thinking about the past, and the future, causes fear, but yet you have to think.

S: Sir, now we are not feeling afraid, but in the future we might feel afraid of the now - which is the past.

K: Yes. But in the future you might think, by Jove, I am going to fail in the exams, that might frighten you.

S: No sir, we are not afraid now.

K: Sitting there, you are not afraid, of course.

S: Sir, if we are not afraid now, why should we be afraid in the future? Now is the past then.

N: It is a bit complicated. If you are not afraid now, why should you be afraid of the future, which is now.

K: You are a clever boy. Think it out sir, think it out. You are saying, thinking about the future causes fear. But what? Next step - tell me - he said something very good, sir, tell me.

N: Now, I am not afraid, in the future the now will become the past, and you have said, only the future and the past can cause fear, but if now I am not afraid and in the future this will become the past, how can it cause fear, if now does not cause fear?

K: It is very clever, sir. Have you understood this? Listen to him carefully.

S: Sir, now we are not afraid - in the future, this will become the past. So, if now I am not afraid, in the future, this will be the past.

K: Quite right sir. Quite right? The future is the present. He has said the future is fear, but at present I am not afraid, therefore the present is the future, therefore I have no fear: that is what he said. S: The present will be the past and future.

K: The present will be the past in the future, therefore in the future there is no fear. He said - please listen to him carefully, it is very interesting - at present I am not afraid, the future is the present, and if I am not afraid now, in the future I won't be afraid. Quite right. That means I am living always in the present.

S: Never in the future.

K: Got it sir? I don't know if you have understood this. That is, listen carefully, use your brains, don't go to sleep, this is not a mathematical class, where you can go on, repeat, repeat. He is saying something very interesting. At the present moment I am not afraid; the present becomes the future, therefore the future has no fear, which means, I am living all the time in the present. Listen carefully, see what it means. Can I live always in the present? That is what he said sir - I am not saying, agree or disagree, listen to what he said. Find out the truth of it, or the falseness of it. If I am not afraid now, the future is what I am now; which means, can I always live now, in the present. Do you understand? Which means - I will explain a little more - which means, the future and the past are contained in the present.

Got it? What? Be careful - don't repeat what I said, find out.

S: (Inaudible).

N: He is saying - I may not be good in Telegu now, so, I might project it to the future and say what am I going to do in the future, if I am not good now at mathematics, or Telegu now, what will I do in the future? He is questioning, whether the present can be a source of fear.

K: Sir, apart from theories, are you frightened, factually, of the past, future, frightened?

S: Yes, sir.

S: Can you bring the past and the future into the present?

K: No, not bring, I said the present is contained in the past and the future.

S: So, both the past and the future bring fear to the present.

K: Yes. So, you have to eliminate fear now. Got it? You people - you see, you say something true and stop, you don't proceed. You said - go on, repeat what you said. It is very good. Do you realize all of you over there, who are much older, don't talk - why?

S: Because maybe, they are not interested, or maybe they don't want to speak.

K: Why? Or they are cynical - this is all childish stuff, we have gone beyond all this, we will pass our exams and get on with this stuff. Right?

S: Or we are listening.

K: Are you listening?

S: I am.

K: What do you mean by listening?

S: When you say something - I am observing.

K: Do you differentiate between hearing with the ear, and listening?

S: Listening and learning.

K: Forgive me sir, if I may repeat again - do you differentiate between hearing and listening?

S: Yes sir - listening is where you take it in, and analyse, but hearing is where it goes in one ear and goes out the other.

K: So you are saying, in the process of listening you are analysing, questioning, doubting. Right? Is that listening? You are telling me, the past is fear and the future is fear - I listen to you, I hear what you are saying, there is a difference. I am not interpreting what you are saying. I am listening which means I am observing what you are talking about and wait till I find out the truth of it. I am not analysing, I am listening, take it in and wait till I completely listen, then I can proceed to analyse. But if I listen and analyse, I have not listened to you. Right? Do you see that?

S: I think listening can cause fear.

K: Ah! - you are right. Listening might have awakened the memories of yesterday, or might awaken the future, therefore you listen, find out if you are afraid, but first, you must listen.

S: In the process of listening you might not be afraid, but afterwards.

K: Yes. Of course - but first, you must listen. Have you ever listened to the song of a bird? Have you? Yes. You are listening and seeing that bird on that branch, singing and then afterwards you say, that bird is - whatever the name of the bird - but you are listening. Do you listen to your educator?

S: If it is boring, we don't listen - when it is interesting.

K: The boy says, when he is bored he is not listening. Quite right, quite right. Which means, the educator is boring.

S: Not always sir.

K: He is being polite - not always sir. Now sir - just a minute, come back. Do you want to be free of fear? Or do you like it?

S: Having a fear may help you.

N: He thinks it is a motivation.

K: Yes. When you are afraid, have you listened to your teacher? When you are frightened, do you ever listen? Of course not. I am asking you, all of you, whether you really want to be free of fear.

S: Yes sir, but then you will have some kind of fear.

K: Darling, just listen. Do you want to be free of it, don't say, there might exist afterwards.

S: Yes.

K: Do you really want to be free? What will you do to be free? You know you go to a temple, Tirupati temple, or some temple and say, please God, I'll give you something, you give me something else.

S: It is a business deal.

K: Right. It is a good business deal, it is really a rotten business. But the priests get a lot out of it. So do you want to be free, completely free - not only now, but all through life?

S: Otherwise you will be going through a lot of conflict. Like your parents might say something and you might not accept it or you might. So, there will be a lot of conflict.

K: Yes. But I am saying - do you want to be free in spite of all that.

S: If you do not know something. You have a fear that you do not know - something will happen to you. Because of that fear, you learn those things.

N: You are afraid you don't know something, so because of that you learn.

K: Is learning - I know the game.

N: He is continuing.

K: He has not moved. Are you saying, through fear you learn? That is what you are saying. Through fear, if you don't listen to the teacher, he might beat you up or he might give you less marks, or he might write to your parents. Therefore, being afraid, you listen to him.

S: It is not always so.

K: You are all too clever. I am asking you a very simple question, you don't answer me. Do you want to be free of fear? Do you? Be serious-don't just say, yes and let's get on with it.

S: No, I want to.

K: Then, what price do you pay for it? Not coins, not go to the temples, and pay a fee of ten rupees. But if you say I really want to be free from fear, deeply, then we will work together.

S: Do what you really want to do, not do it for the sake of others.

K: And also, if you want to be free, you, we three will work it out. You understand what I am saying? Work it out, step by step, so that at the end of it you are completely free of fear. Right? If that is what you want to do, what will you pay for it? Not money. What will you do? You know - give a flower - you must do something to show you are serious, your integrity, not just say, I would like to be free from fear, tell me all about it.

S: Be true to yourself, like, not try to put up...

K; I understand. Let us go into it - don't say, I must do this, I must not do that, let us go into the whole question of fear and see if you can step by step, end it. At each step taken, it is ended.

S: (Inaudible.

K: By learning. Right? What do you mean by learning?

S: Learning...

K: Wait, listen old boy. Don't answer me before I have finished. What do you mean by learning? Is memorizing learning? Right? Answer that. Is memorizing mathematics, repeating day after day, day after day the same thing, till you have memorised it, is that learning? That is what you call learning. But I question, I doubt, if that is learning. Learning is much more active than merely repeating. Now, what is the time?

S: Sir - if you don't have fear, you might cause trouble to others.

K: By being free of fear, you might cause trouble to others. So you will be a doormat. So I am afraid I might hurt him, therefore I keep my fear.

S: Not that sir, if you are free of fear, you might go and burn houses. You are not afraid of anybody.

K: If you are not afraid, you might burn up the school. Try it.

We had better stop, it is now a quarter to eleven, we have done an hour and a quarter. Do you like this kind of meeting?

A: Yes.

K: We will have it. We will meet again the day after tomorrow. So we will go on with this. First of all, I hope you have enjoyed yourselves. Have a good discussion - discuss - you understand, not just listen and say, I agree with you. That is silly. Let us sit quietly for a few minutes, shall we?

1983

Rishi Valley 1983

Rishi Valley 1st Talk with Students 12th December 1983

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