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Madras 1979

Madras 2nd Public Talk 23rd December 1979

My we continue with what we were talking about yesterday? We were saying how important it is to think together so that our minds meet, because the mind, as we pointed out yesterday, is the whole conglomeration of the past with all its innumerable, thousand experiences, sorrows, pleasures, and the agony of life that is fragmented and broken up. And to think together requires, if one is at all serious, that one should put aside, each one of us, our own particular point of view, our conclusions, theoretical acceptance of something which we fancy exists, to be free of beliefs and dogmas and all that, so that we can freely, happily, diligently meet each other. Because, as we pointed out yesterday also, it is easy to think about something - about that noise that is going on there. But to think not about something, but to have that capacity to think impersonally, objectively, not according to circumstances, so that our minds are capable of meeting each other freely, and in that freedom enquire into the whole problem of existence.

So if we could this evening meet as we did yesterday - I wonder if we can compete with that noise. It is good to have some humour, and not get irritated with it. Let's get on with it. We said our mind, not only the objective superficial mind which is consciousness, but also all the deeper layers of our mind of which we are very rarely acquainted, or familiar with all the activities that are going on below the ordinary daily activities of life, our mind and brain is the result of million years. It has evolved through time, through various civilizations. Our brains and our minds, and our senses, our emotions and all the responses that lie therein are the result of million years, evolved, grown, multiplied, but it is the mind of humanity, it is the mind of each one of us, it is the mind with which we live every day of our life.

As we said yesterday, and I hope you will allow me to repeat it - we are not here to exchange ideas, opinions or agree or disagree, but to see logically, reasonably, sanely, the fact - not the fact expressed by the speaker but the fact of what we are, which is the mind, with all its confusions, travail, sorrow, mischief, dishonesty, corruption, all that is the whole of our mind grown through time. This is a fact, if you observe very closely that your mind is the result of circumstances, of your culture - if you have a culture, apparently it does not exist - nurtured by the religion with all its superstitions, rituals, with the education that one has had, that is our mind. It is not your mind and my mind but the mind of man, mind of every human being, which is obvious.

And man, including the woman, throughout the ages from time nameless has always enquired deeply, if one studies history, if there is a reality, a truth that transcends all time, all circumstances, that is ageless and deathless - this has been his search, asking, groping, enquiring and in these enquiries he has created civilizations, new civilizations, as all civilizations when they are new must be born out of religion, not out of Marx or Mao or some clever philosopher, but out of religion. We explained that the meaning of the word - etymologically it means gathering together, not people gathering together as we are, but gathering together - I will explain presently - collect, be diligent, scrupulously attentive in this enquiry, not to find, not to achieve enlightenment, not to become something. The meaning now accepted etymologically is religion means gathering together all your energy, so that that energy given the right environment, right circumstances, right physical, mental, emotional balance, it can explode. That is the meaning of religion, not all that tommy rot that is going on, nonsense of saviours, gurus, the images put in the temples and so on. That is not religion. We like to think it is religion because it is pleasant to escape from our daily routine, grind, to escape into some emotional, imaginative, superstitious sensations. We are not attacking anything, neither your religion nor your gurus, nor the society that you belong to, nor your sect, nothing. As we said yesterday, we are not doing propaganda or trying to convince you of anything, and I really mean it. Nothing. But together observe the facts, if we can. To observe a fact means that one must be free to look, to look at your own gurus, your own wives, children, husbands, to look at the beauty of the earth, the skies, the marvels of the trees and the bird on the wind - to look at it. And to look at them one must be free.

So our mind are the result of thousand experiences and man, as we said, has been searching for this eternity - not immortality; immortality is merely the continuity of one's own ignorance. You accept all this? You won't. I will show you presently. And there is this deep-rooted, deep-laden seed which man has not cultivated, nourished, looked after, cared for, which is the beginning of that which he has sought. But we have cultivated every other faculty. If you observe in yourself, we have cultivated through time the idea of the individual, of the 'you' and the 'me', we and they. This has been handed down from generation after generation. Is that so? Is it a reality or a fiction or something thought has carefully cultivated? Please, as we said yesterday, please do not resist. I know you all believe in individuality, your fulfilment, you immortality, you birth after this and after that. You are rooted in this individual concept. Now we are asking if that is so. We have also cultivated various other things, and by questioning everything that we hold both consciously as well as unconsciously, in questioning objectively, sanely, rationally, and not wanting to change it, seeing things as they are, what actually is, and not moving away from that or escape from that, not wanting to go beyond it - that calls for scrupulous attention there comes intelligence. The etymological meaning of that word intelligence is to be able to understand, to be able to discern, to be able to see without direction, without pressure, what actually is going on, and in the pure perception of what is going on, there is insight into what is going on, that insight is the movement of intelligence - not cleverness, not erudition, not experience but the immediate perception of what is true. And the perception of what is true can only take place if there is no direction, no motivation, the pure unadulterated unpremeditated observation.

So that intelligence wipes away the centre from which we are acting, the 'me'. We are going to go into that. So, we have, as we said, cultivated throughout the centuries this idea of the self, the 'me' that must evolve through time, many births or saved by some saviour and live everlastingly in light. Now, we are questioning that. I mean questioning, enquiring whether it is true or it is an illusion created by our desire, created by thought, and we have accepted that image, that idea, that network from times past. You are following all this? I hope you are not going to sleep. I really mean this, it is very serious. You are not here to admire the speaker, you are not here to bask in some atmospheric spirituality. You are here to find out, not the speaker finds out and tells you, but you who are listening find out. So we must enquire into what it is, what has created it, the 'me', the self. You understand the word self? You, your anxieties, your problems, your sexual demands, your fears, your hopes, your depressions, moods, the sorrows, the pains, the jealousies, hatreds, the violence, the fear of fulfilment, and not being able to fulfil, the constant competition with each other. That word 'competition' means etymologically, to compute, which means to help to grow, to increase, not what we are doing now, fighting each other. Right? Please understand all this.

So we are enquiring diligently, with great deal of serious attention, whether the self, the 'me', which has been handed down through generation after generation from the ancient times, whether that 'me' is an actuality in the sense that it has its root in truth. One must distinguish between reality and truth. Reality is everything that thought has created. Please listen carefully. Are you following all this? Reality is everything that thought has created - the microphone, your beads which you are wearing, houses you live - all that is created by thought, obviously. But nature is not created by thought - the trees, mountains, waters, the birds. You can write poems about them. But thought has not created them. Thought has created the chair out of the wood of a tree, but the tree is not the product of thought. Please follow all this carefully otherwise you will miss the whole thing. So reality is that. Truth has nothing whatsoever to do with thought. The relationship between truth and reality is one way, reality cannot touch truth, but truth can employ, use thought.

So, we are enquiring whether the 'me' which has been created, to which mankind has clung, creating round it innumerable philosophies, whether that is rooted in truth or it is merely a reality, reality being created by thought. Right? Are you not created by thought, the 'me'? The 'me' is your name, your form, your ideas, your concepts, your prejudices, your desires, your fears, your longings, your aspirations, your sorrow, your degeneration, all that, this vast structure of the 'me' is put together by thought. Nobody can deny it. But thought has invented the super-self which is still thought.

So one has to be very alert in this enquiry that thought is the result or the response of memory, memory is the accumulated experience as knowledge, not only the experiences of your present day but also the experiences of your fathers, grandfathers, generations after generations past. That is the knowledge that one has, that is our brain, our whole structure is that. And this self created by thought, and thought itself being limited, as we explained, because knowledge is limited, there is no complete knowledge about anything, there can never be. That is obvious. And that knowledge whether in science, in our relationships with each other, is based on experience accumulated, which is stored up in our brain cells as memory. This is so, whether you accept it or not. It is so. You can discuss if you wish with professors, with brain specialists, but not with your philosophers, not with your gurus because they have already made up their mind. But if you really want to know, enquire, you can discuss with them. They will offer you their opinions, but to find this out for oneself, which transcends all information, all philosophies, all gurus.

So we are saying that thought has put together the whole structure of the 'me', the 'me' is the result of our senses, of our desires, of our reactions, and thought making an image out of these reactions as the 'me'. Right? You are following all this? Please observe it in yourself, not what I am saying, then it has no value, then you can be just another lecturer, agree or not. But if you yourself see this, which is, basically we are all the same including the philosophers, the gurus, the gods, and all that, we are essentially, basically the same, which is, we suffer, we are anxious, we have pain, we are terribly lonely people, from which we try to escape. Our relationship is based on this. You may love your wife, you may sleep with her, but relationship means - the meaning of that word, to relate, is to look back, refer to. Are you following all this, or am I going too quickly? Please tell me, am I going too quickly? It doesn't matter.

So, we have cultivated memory, which has developed extraordinary technology, terrifying, beneficial, but it is still based on thought, and thought being the response of knowledge, knowledge can never be whole, therefore, thought is partial. Please take this in. Partial, limited, and that which it has created will always be limited, will always be divisible, and thought has created the idea of the separate individual and therefore is always divisive. Look into yourself sir, don't look at my words, my face, or my gesture. Look into yourself and you will see the truth of it. Because each one is struggling, competing with another, wanting to fulfil, and this divisive activity which is self-centred is breaking up the world - divisive as a nationality, as a race, belonging to some guru, belonging to some god, belonging to some sect, wearing different robes, divisive. And the mind, thought is seeking the whole. And it will never be capable of it, because in itself it is divisive, because knowledge can never, never, never be complete, it always lives within the shadow of ignorance. Right? Have you understood this in the sense you have seen this in yourself as an absolute truth, fact?

Then the question arises: since it is so deeply rooted in all of us, free enterprise, individual enterprise, competition - as I explained the word means to grow, to help to grow, not to fight with each other, the competing countries. Sirs, you don't know what you are all doing. Can this self-centred structure be dissolved? Look: as we said yesterday, the mind, the brain is seeking security. You are seeking security in your relationship, in your jobs, security with your wife, husband. Security means that you are safe, certain in a state, not the state of a country, but state of mind, the brain must have complete security otherwise it cannot function. That is why it specializes. You are following all this? As an engineer, scientist, then it is completely safe - safe in having the capacity from that knowledge - and therefore competition arises, beating down each other politely, conveniently, comfortably or respectfully, or traditionally - and the gurus are doing it. One says I am better than the other, I am nearer, I have the way and the other fellow does not have. He is a cuckoo and you come to me. So, can this structure which dominates all our life till we die and after death there is the desire that says: will I live? And the philosophies that have been worked into it, beliefs, reincarnation, the whole of it is based on thought, and thought cannot dissolve it, because it is part of itself. I wonder if you see that. It is like a person who wants to meditate, but his meditation is the continuity of thought. There is no ending to thought. He attempts to end thought. Therefore he disciplines, again the activity of thought - to discipline, to control, to follow, to imitate, systems, practices, all that is the movement of thought.

Now the question is whether that self which is creating so much mischief in the world, because in itself it is divisive, the nationalities divisive, the groups, the sects, the races, everything in the world is now divisive, divided, broken up, and that is because of thought. Can that thought dissolve the structure which it has created as the 'me'? Go into it carefully sirs. It means if you understand, there is total, complete, psychological revolution. It is not just you are playing with words.

How do you approach this problem? You understand the problem? The problem is the self with its self-centred activity, which has created such divisions in the world, division in our intimate relationship - man and woman - division in ourselves, the constant contradiction in ourselves, the wanting, the not wanting, the whole travail, the structure, how is all that to be dissolved? That is the problem. You understand the question? Otherwise we can never be, to put it mildly, happy, you can never be whole, you can never be sane. A man who thinks he is separate from the others, he is not sane. Sanity means to observe clearly, to see what is going on, to see the facts, not to invent facts. Now how do you approach the problem? Because on your approach the problem is resolved. How you approach it - you understand my question? That is, if you approach with a motive, however noble, however pleasant or idealistic, that motive distorts the action with regard to this problem. So, has one a motive - motive means movement. So please enquire carefully what your approach is to the problem, to any problem, whether you approach with all the knowledge you have in the resolution of that problem, or you approach with a motive that I wish it will help me to get a better job or I will be free of sorrow, or I will reach nirvana, moksha, god or whatever it is. So, I have to find out accurately what your approach is, to any problem, and specially with regard to the psychological problems, the problems in oneself. So, what is your approach? Right? Not clear, sir? When you say clear, is it verbally or actually? That means you want to find out if there is an answer to this question, if there is a resolution to the question, which means you don't know the answer. If you know the answer, it is not a problem. If you have come to the answer through some divination, which is doubtful, or if you have studied some philosophies, upanishads or various books and come with that knowledge, you are approaching it with knowledge which you have acquired, which is past. Right? So your approach dictates the resolution of the problem. Please see the importance of this. This is the beginning of intelligence: to see not only verbally, logically, but to see the fact that psychological problems can only be solved in the manner how you approach it. If you approach it with any form of motive, try to escape from it, the problem will always remain. It is like having a cancer. If I had a cancer, I can't escape from it - the doctor tells me, 'On the table, old boy, otherwise you are going to die'. So I have to look at it very carefully. So I must approach this question. In the very approach is the beginning if intelligence, the intelligence that will give you insight into the whole phenomenon of the 'me'.

Do you understand this, or you are all being mesmerized? This is a very, very serious problem. It will change our whole relationship with each other, because now it is based on me and you as two separate individuals, with their images of each other, with their memories of each other, and so sustain the separation, though they come together, they are separate. You and your guru are separate. They may say, we are all one, I am up the ladder, you are down below. But actually as long as this individual activity goes on, there must be separateness and therefore there must be conflict, nationally, racially, collectively, economically, socially, in every way.

Now, is that intelligence, which is not cleverness, which is not logic but in the observation of these facts we have used logic, reason, sanity, but intelligence is not reason, is not cleverness, is not analysis, it is the quality of a mind that sees instantly the truth, the fact as it is. This intelligence is not of the book. It is not of experience. If there is this quality of intelligence, everything comes like water down the river.

So, your approach matters enormously, and it is only the sea of intelligence can wash away the 'me', nothing else - changing names, going to various disciplines, belonging to monasteries, nothing. Nothing will wipe away this structure which thought has created as the 'me', which is creating so much mischief in the world, because in itself it has no love. Thought is never love.

And so we are examining the nature of thought and its activity, not how to stop thought, but seeing the movement of thought, what it has done in the world outwardly, and also what it is doing inwardly, the two are not different. It is like the sea going out and coming in - ebb and flow, coming in and going out. But thought has separated it, the outer and the inner. The inner is the result of the outer. If you want to change society, which is corrupt, which is immoral, which is destructive, which is totally ugly as it is, one has to change the individual who has created this society - not the individual, but the human being who has created this society. But what are we doing, the politicians, the economists, communists, socialists, Maoists, all these people they want to change the structure of the society, to bring about a change in the structure they invent a new structure. But it is the same mind. Come on sirs, look at it. And we fall a prey to all that so thoughtlessly.

So, we have come to a point when we see together, not I see and you don't see and I have to explain it to you, together we see this thing, that is, we have together thought, we have exercised our brains neither accepting nor doubting, neither saying this is right or this is wrong - you cannot say this is right or wrong when you see something actually. It is so.

From that question arises another which is: what is human relationship? Because all society is based on human relationship. Because the human beings are immoral, our society is immoral. Human beings are corrupt beyond measure, we create a society that is utterly corruptible. So, we have come to a point when we ask, what is our relationship. Not yours and mine, we will come to that later, but your relationship with your wives, husbands, and children. As we explained, the word etymologically means to refer to, to look back. You understand what is the significance of that means? Our relationship with each other is based on memory, that is referring to something that has happened - sexually, something, either insult or flattery, something that has happened, stored up in the brain. You have your experience sexually in relationship with each other, and he is the same. You are following all this? So our relationships are based on remembrance. Just think of it sirs! Which means what? Is love a remembrance? Do not accept or reject. Find out sir. Is love a remembrance? Is love the result of thought? When you say you love your wife - I wonder if you ever do, perhaps not in India but they do abroad - I don't know what that means and you don't know what it means either. So, we are asking - please, sirs, be serious, this is terribly important in life - life is relationship. Because all life being relationship, if it is based on memory, then it is only partial, your relationship based on knowledge which means sexual knowledge, the pleasurable knowledge, the irritations, the possessiveness, the jealousies, the hatreds, the anxiety between two people, the agony of not being loved and loved, all that, all that is based on memory. For god's sake, look at it. When we are asking, if that is a fact, which it is, then what is your relationship? Just words? A piece of paper says you are man and woman married either in a church or this or that? Sir, go into it, find out, don't sit there. If there is no relationship except on memory, see the tragedy of it, see the sadness of it, see the appalling condition which we have made ourselves into. Which means thought has brought about this relationship and therefore thought excludes every kind of affection and love. Therefore, there is this constant struggle between man and woman. Thought cannot bring about love. You cannot practise it, as you can practise politeness, even that is doubtful. Politeness requires care, concern for another. So, whole generation after generation of people without love, you understand sirs - so your children are not loved, your education has no meaning, everything is degenerating. After a million years we are like this.

When one observes this very closely, attentively, with care, there is not only the pure perception of these facts, but out of that perception comes this ocean of intelligence. Sir, intelligence and love go together: without love, you cannot have intelligence. And it is that intelligence that gives place to division, to quarrels, all the misery and confusion that we live in.

Now, you have listened for an hour. Where are you? I know you are sitting there. But where are we? Has your mind understood the nature of itself, conditioned by a million years, by experience, by knowledge, and that seed which man has carefully hidden, the seed of religiosity - not all the beads, that is not religion. But this tremendous demand on man from the timeless ages to find that which is eternal, nameless, that is inborn, everybody is asking, asking, asking and therefore they caught in the gurus and all that nonsense, join churches, and this and that. But they never develop this seed, this marvellous seed of religiosity, and that can only flower and cover the beautiful earth when there is this intelligence.


Madras 1979

Madras 2nd Public Talk 23rd December 1979

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