Rajghat 1st Public Talk 11th November, 1984
It all looks so formidable, doesn't it? Just relax and let us talk about things. I think we should talk over together - I mean together - many things. Unfortunately we were not abe to come earlier because of other events. And I am sorry to have kept you waiting here.
This is not a lecture. A lecture is meant to give information or direction on a particular subject. So, this is not a lecture, this is a conversation between you and the speaker. Both of us are going to explore together several problems that we have. The speaker may put it into words, but you have to also share, or investigate together, not only the meaning of the words, as we are speaking in English, but also the meaning of the word, the significance of the word, the content of the whole word so that there is a direct communication between us. I hope this is clear. This is not a lecture, or a sermon, or a guru talking to his silly disciples.
So, together we are going to first think together, see what we are examining together and go as far as possible into what we are investigating, so that we both of us understand the meaning and the significance in our daily life what we are investigating. I hope this is clear: that we are together investigating, having a conversation, a dialogue. Right?
First of all we should look together at why human beings who have lived on this earth for millions of years - and recently the scientists, biologists and the archeologists are saying we have lived on this earth as human beings for the last 50,000 years or more - why we have not been able to find, especially in this modern world, security, both psychological, inward security and outward security. That is one of the problems that not only this country but every country in the world is facing at the present time. Is that clear? Security: why socially, economically and physically we have not been able to find complete security for all human beings; not just for a few, not for the rich, not for those who live in a small commune or a committee. But ask ourselves why we have not found physical security. First, physical. There is murder going on of the most savage kind, terrorists, kidnapping, destroying and the ultimate violence is war. War is organized murder that is tolerated, considered highly respectable, blessed by religions, and so on. You know all this perhaps, some of you. So, we are asking why is it, however civilized we are, however cultured, we are still fighting, killing each other, why there is not security, and is it possible to not have to begin with psychological security, but inward security. Then, that inward security will express itself outwardly. That is, if we are not inwardly, psychologically, subjectively, completely secure, then whatever we do externally will also be insecure. I think this is clear.
So, we ought first to enquire, if we may, why inwardly, inside the skin, subjectively, psychologically, man has not found security at all. He has sought security in god, which is an idea invented by thought. Right? Am I shocking you - I hope I am! God is invented by thought, because we human beings are frightened, and so we want something on which we can rely, hold on to, look to somebody who will help us, and so we invent various illusions. I hope you are following all this. One invents various ways of seeking comfort, security. And all those ways, as one has observed, have utterly failed. You may have your guru in whom you have faith, and hope he will give you some kind of inward security - but even those gurus are failing. Right?
You are sure of all this? You are investigating. I am not - the speaker is not telling you what is right or what is wrong but together, we are going to find out what is true, what is right. So, can there be inward security first, and then that security will inevitably create a society that will be orderly, that will give security for all human beings, not only for the rich and well-to-do, but for the very, very poor. Right? Unless you are secure inwardly, outward expression of that insecurity is the present state of society. That is clear; this is all logical, reasonable, sane, not something fanciful. So, we must ask why haven't we inward security? What is it that is preventing us? Why? If the speaker asks you that question, why, what would be your answer? Why each one of us is not secure inwardly. Why are we so frightened? Why are we so subject to fanciful concepts? If one examines the cause of this uncertainty, insecurity, is it - please I am questioning it, please you question it - is it because each one of us is so self-centred? Each one of us is concerned with himself, concerned with his own fulfillment, concerned with his own success, concerned with his own advancement, achievement, his own pleasures, his own sorrows? That is, each one of us has this great self-interest. Would that be correct? That is one of the reasons, would you agree to that? Self-interest. What does that self-interest mean? Please question - what does self-interest imply? Does it not imply a separate, divided, narrow limited activity? Right? When I am concerned about myself from morning till night and even in my sleep, it becomes a very small affair. Doesn't it? Even one's meditation, if you are concerned with achieving something or other, it is a very small affair. No? It is a very limited activity. It is like keeping something to yourself all the time, worried, anxious, fearful, depressed; you know it all becomes such a petty little affair. Doesn't it? No, don't agree because it is very easy to agree verbally.
But to act actively be concerned, whether it is possible to live in this world with all the corruption, with all the bestiality of it, the brutality, the cruelty of all that, is it possible to live in this world without self-interest? Have you ever asked that question? Or is it something that we very carefully avoid. One may be married, children, family and that is our concern. We may pray, we may do some puja every morning. That is also a sort of self-concern. No? Also self-concern implies a separate, divided, fragmentary activity. Right? Which then brings about social division: the upper, the lower, the middle class and the lowest, this division - doesn't it? When you are concerned with yourself it becomes a dividing force in the world, which is nationalism, racial division, linguistic division, religious division, the Sikhs, the Hindus, the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Christians, fragmented, following one guru after another. Right? Haven't you noticed all this? Which is, the Arab and the Jew killing each other. nationalities are dividing people. Right? And we hope to find security in nationalism: in India, France and so on - America and Russia. So, this self-interest expresses itself in many subtle ways. So one has to be aware of all that, if you are interested, if you are serious and not carry on as we do day after day. If one is seriously concerned with life, with all the things that are happening, all the terrible things that are happening then one must ask, very deep fundamental questions, not be satisfied with superficial questions and superficial answers. Can one live in this world, in the modern world without belonging to any group, any nationality, any religion, following no guru?
Can you do all this? Or is it all a superficial talk and when you leave this hall you will follow your old ways. What is the point of all this then? Listening to something that is true, that is not invented by the speaker, but these are facts, daily facts of our life: our cruelty, our self-concern, our deep apparently abiding selfishness, and that is what is destroying the world. The Americans are concerned with America. And the Americans as separate human beings are concerned with themselves, as here, and so on. So one begins to understand not verbally but very deeply that where there is division, there must be conflict. Where there is division nationally, there must be conflict, the Muslim and the Hindu the Pakistani, and you know all that rubbish that is going on. And when you face facts, the realities, not just some imaginary, romantic concepts, but when you face daily facts, then you are confronted with a challenge that demands an answer, a challenge that you must accept and understand it and act.
So, there is only security, not in self-centredness and self-interest, but in seeing the fact, and understanding the fact and acting. That is intelligence. And in that intelligence there is security, not in some romantic concepts, sentimentality and all that superficial stuff.
So, we also ought to ask why is there so much corruption in the world? I know this is a rather tricky subject. Why is there so much corruption in the world? What is corruption? The word, the etymological meaning of that word from Latin and Greek and Italian means to break up. I won't go into all that. What is the root of corruption? Where does corruption begin? Passing money under the table, is that corruption? Bribing the porter to have your entrance into a big man? What is corruption, which is so prevalent, more so in this country - pulling wires for your friends, for your nephews, for your sons - is that corruption? Please think about it, look at it? Surely that is a very, very superficial form of corruption. But it is a deeper cause, a far deeper cause, this terrible corruption that is going on. Is it corruption when you follow a leader? Go on, answer this question sirs? When you follow your guru, is that not corruption, in the name of truth, in the name of bla, bla and all that stuff? When you follow somebody, or when you follow some ideal, is that not also corruption? Are you surprised at these questions, or are you just taking it? We are trying to find out together what is the cause of all this? Is it not corruption when each one of us is ambitious, envious, when each one is concerned with his own fulfilment, when he wants his own particular way, when human beings take a stand about something? Do you understand all this? I believe, and you take up a position on that. Another says, I believe quite the opposite. Right? Is that not also corruption?
So, does not corruption start when each one of us is not only concerned with themselves, but also deeply attached to some superstitious, ideological, imaginative belief? No? Isn't that the beginning of corruption? The Catholic believes very strongly in something; in some concept, in some belief, in some faith, and you take another stand in some faith, in some belief, in some god, and you are at war with each other - not actually at war, but you kind of separate yourselves from that silliness as though your silliness was totally different. Haven't you noticed all this? Doesn't corruption begin there? Doesn't corruption begin where there is essentially, deeply self-interest? (Skip it, sir. Leave it sir, will you. Leave it, sir, will you. He doesn't listen, and you don't listen either! That is a perfect example sir. He doesn't listen and you don't listen.) You know one must learn the art of listening. You get used to the voice of your wife or your husband, you never listen to each other. Do you? You get used to it. She might be telling you something real but you have already understood it. And so we never actually listen to somebody, and I am sure that is what is going on here, quite sure. I can take a bet on it! That you really are not listening. That is the pity of it, because if you really listened, not only to the words, but to capture the significance of the words. That is, to listen, not translate what you are hearing to confirm or contradict your ideas, but to find out what the other fellow is saying.
When you tell a story to a child, if you have ever done that, he is so extraordinarily attentive. He is thrilled by the story, he wants you to keep going because the child is curious, eager, wanting to find out what the story is about. Therefore he is paying attention to it. But apparently we don't. You are not actually listening to what the speaker is saying. The speaker has a certain reputation, unfortunately. You have a certain image about him - and you are satisfied with that, you don't question it. You don't say, what do you mean. You don't have deep suspicion, not suspicion, doubt, to question. But you know, it is like a good breath in bad air that passes by. So, please if one can request you, do listen, not only to what the speaker is saying but also to all the things, the whispers of the world: to your wife, to your husband, to the birds, the sound of the wind. You must have the quality of sensitivity to find out. So, if you will kindly pay attention, and that apparently is very difficult because most of us cannot pay attention for more than a couple of minutes - a few minutes and then you are off somewhere else. There is never deep attentive listening to something. Because if we do listen deeply that is the greatest miracle, you don't have to do a thing. The very act of listening is an action.
We ought also to talk over together why there is so much poverty in the world. One can answer the reason for it, as in this country, over population, bad government - sorry, are there governments officials here? I am sure there are no government officials here. Bad government, corrupt government, it is so appalling what is happening. And poverty arises not only because of the over population, but because each country is concerned with its own economy, with its own problems, building up armaments. I do not know if you know all this. Each country is spending millions and millions on armaments, ready to kill each other. Right? And so where there is division there must be not only conflict but poverty. Do you understand this? If all the world felt it was our responsibility to wipe out poverty, we could. But you won't let America or India interfere with another country, each country is concerned with itself, each human being is concerned with himself. Right?
Now we also ought to talk over together - because we have only one more talk tomorrow morning, so we must bring everything quickly together - why are human beings frightened - fear. Aren't you afraid? Be simple sirs. To acknowledge what one is, is not a shameful act, it is 'what is'. We are frightened human beings. And we have carried this burden of fear for centuries, millions of years. Right? If you have observed historically, and also if you have observed without reading a book, all religions are based on fear. If there was no fear there would be no gods. Right? Do you see that? If you are not really frightened at all, subjectively, inwardly, would you have gods? Would you have puja? Would you have prayers? Would you follow somebody who says, 'I know the truth, you don't, I will help you'. So, we can look at fear? Can you look at your own fear?
You want to ask me something, madam?
Q: Yes, you were saying that pujas and all these things might be just coming from fear. But they might also be a celebration of life, not totally negative.
K: Just a minute, just a minute. What do you mean by love?
Q: It's a unity.
K: You see that is an immense question, madam. You can't say celebration of love.
Q: No, life, it is a celebration you know.
K: May we just go on first. May we just go on with enquiring, not only into fear, but what is life? What is living? That is life, the living. What is our living? Conflict. Right? Our life is a struggle, our life is a pleasure, sexual, pleasure of achieving something, pleasure of possessing something, and also fear, conflict, being hurt psychologically, sorrow, sympathy, kindliness, generosity and so on. That is our life. That is life, in which there may be certain spurts of tenderness, kindliness. Love is not pleasure. Love is not desire. Love has no reaction. So we won't go into all that at the present moment. So it is no good saying, live a happy life. One of the strange things is, India is a very sad country, but there is always a smile. Haven't you noticed it? The poor smile. They are starving - they smile. No? And that is the miracle of this country. They are starving, down trodden, no means of happiness and perpetually working, and yet as you go by on the street especially in the country, they smile at you. This happens nowhere else in the world. That is one of the great things of this country.
So, we were talking about fear. Can this fear end? Do you want to know what is the cause of fear? Not a particular form of fear; you may be frightened of your wife or your husband or your boss or this or that, that is only various branches of fear. As a tree has many, many branches, many leaves, and it is no good merely cutting off one branch, one must understand the root of fear, go into it very very deeply, what is the origin, the beginning, the causation of fear. I can explain - the speaker can explain the cause, can describe the origin of fear. But explanation, the description is not the actuality. Right? I can describe the Himalayas, but the description is not the actual beauty and grandeur of the Himalayas. Right? But most of us are satisfied with description. I can explain the cause of fear, you will agree or disagree but there it is. But if you can go into it for yourself deeply - not merely agree or disagree but go into it, put your teeth into it, then perhaps you will be free of it. But we have not the energy, or the inclination, or even the urge to be free of fear. Right? Because you do puja, believe in god and so on, but you never go to the root of anything and find out for yourselves. So may I go into the cause of it? Why human beings throughout the world after millennia upon millennia, have lived with fear.
I can't hear what you are saying, sir? Say it to me slowly, sir. Don't get upset?
Q: Somebody has power, somebody else has property and somebody has position and is creating fear in those who have not.
K: Sir, I am asking, those who have positions, are afraid of losing. The fear death, the fear of their husbands and their wives, fear of public opinion, fear of losing something that they have, fear of not having affection, fear of loneliness, fear of not being somebody. So you have are many, many forms of fear. Now, do you want to take each subject, or go to the root of it?
Q: Go to the root of it.
K: Go to the root of it. Will you go to the root of it with me?
K: But go to it, not just play with it. Will you actually take the trouble, use your brains, your capacity, your energy to find out, and not be satisfied with description? One can paint a marvellous picture of the Himalayas, but the picture is not the Himalayas. The word is not the actual. So will you go beyond the word and work at it? What is the cause of fear, not the various forms of fear, but the root cause of it? Is it not thought? I am this, but I might not be that. I have a job, I might lose it. Right? Do you understand? So thinking is part of fear, isn't it? Right. Thinking: thinking I might not become a successful man in terms of the world; or in terms of religion I might not achieve enlightenment. Right? Thinking is one of the major causes of fear.
Q: Insecurity is the cause of fear.
K: We went into it madam, earlier we went into it. Perhaps you were not here when we began, or you didn't listen. We talked about insecurity. Why is there - I won't repeat it.
So is not thought the cause of fear? If you didn't think about death, would you be afraid of death? If death happens suddenly to me, now, that is the end of it. But if I begin to think, my god, what will happen to me, I might lose my house, my family, my bla bla, and I get frightened. Right? Would you agree to that? Not agree, see the fact? So thinking is perhaps the cause of fear. Right? So we have to enquire what is thinking. Do you understand? What is thinking? Because your actions are based on thinking. All the puja you do is based on thinking. All the technological advancement, marvellous advancement, is based on thinking. Right sir? Your business, your way of life, everything is based on thinking. And yet you would find thinking is one of the causes of fear. Right? So what is thinking? What is the process of thinking? Do you understand? The speaker can go into it, but if you merely follow the words, it will mean nothing. But if you put your brains to work on it - as you do when you want money, when you want sex, when you want anything you work at it - so will you also work on this? The speaker will show, will explain, knowing that explanation is not the thing.
What is thinking? Is it not born out of memory? If you had no memory, you would not think - would you? Be quite sure, don't accept anything the speaker says. If you had no memory, which means no knowledge - right - you couldn't think. Are you certain of that? Certain, not just play around with it. That is, experience brings knowledge, as is happening in the scientific world, in the biological world, in the world of genetic engineering. Perhaps you know all this. But I won't go into all that. There is thinking, this thinking is based on experience. Which is, experience gives you knowledge, brings accumulated knowledge step by step, as in the scientific world, more and more and more. Right? So knowledge and experience are limited, aren't they? No? Limited. Therefore thinking is limited. You may think of immensity, of illumination, of complete knowledge - you may think about it, but thinking itself is limited, therefore whatever you think is limited. Right? Whatever you think about god - god is limited. You may give him all the attributes you like: kindliness, all knowledge, all powerful, all this, all that, but your thinking being limited your gods are limited. No?
Q: Thinking about god is limited.
K: All right. Thinking about god is limited, but is god limited?
K: How do you know?
Q: God is unlimited.
K: How do you know? You love god, don't you? To you god is very important, but how do you know god exists? Because you have believed, it is part of your tradition, of your whole religious concept. Right? And you just follow, and say, god exists. And the scientists say quite the opposite, that man began from the sea, as a cell and built, built through centuries until he became man. You don't like that, but god you love, he made the world. And you say, god made us. He must be a very poor god to make you. No? So god must be very poor, you are not even logical.
So we said thinking is one of the causes of fear. I am alive now, but I might be dead tomorrow. Right? And I am afraid of that. So thinking, being limited, and that is limited because knowledge is always limited - right sir? Be quite sure of it, knowledge whether now or in the future, knowledge will always be limited, because it is based on experience. Within the last 150 years or more science has been accumulating. Right? More and more and more. Where there is more it must be limited. Where there is better it must be limited. So thought is limited, and where there is limitation there must be conflict. Thought has created war, and all the instruments of war. So we say thought is one of the causes of fear. Right? And also time is a cause of fear. Right? Time. Are you interested in all this stuff? Or is it just a kind of game? You have nothing better to do. Time is a factor of fear. Let us begin to find out what is time to you. What is time to you?
K: What do you mean by that word change.
Q: One thing is passing into another. It is the movement of change.
K: Isn't time a series of movements? That is, I am not a scientist, I am not an expert on anything. Thank god. But I have watched, I lived, enquired. So time is the past. Isn't it? Is not time the past? Past memories. Yesterday was rather a cloudy day and cold - not here, in Delhi. So there is time as yesterday, time as now, time as the future. Right? So time is a movement from the past, to the present, to the future. So time is a series of movements. Right? So evolution is time. And we have lived on this earth for 50,000 years as homo sapiens, man, and during that long duration of 50,000 years we have been what we have in the past now, slightly modified - they were selfish then, we are selfish now. Right? You don't think about all this. So, what is the past? All your memories isn't it? All that you have acquired, all that you have felt, all the things that have hurt you both biologically as well as psychologically. The past is memory, isn't it? Isn't it? You are quiet sure? You are all so hesitant. The past is your father, your mother, your grandmother, your grandfather and up and up and up or down and down, if you like. The past is all that accumulated memory of the whole race, the community, the family, the one in that family. All that memory which includes tradition, knowledge, practise and all that, the skill, that is the past. And what is the present? Is not the present the modified past? No, you don't think so. Tell me what the present is.
Q: It is mainly the past.
K: Yes sir, modified, I said that, the past meeting the present, the challenge modifies itself or controls the present and goes on. So the past is modifying itself in the present, and goes on. So the past goes on modifying itself all the time. It is still the past. Right? Oh, my goodness! No? The past modifying itself becomes the future. The future therefore is now, because the past modifies itself in the future, so the future is now. No? Look, sir, if one is envious, one might modify. Suppose I am envious, because you have a better house, better car, better position. I am envious of you. And I struggle with it. But, tomorrow I will still be envious. Right? No? What is the difficulty? Unless I change now, tomorrow is still envy. Right sir? So tomorrow is now unless I change - right?
Q: Is it possible to listen - is this possible in the present?
K: Only in the present not in the future.
Q: Because the past is gone, the future is not in our hands.
K: You haven't listened, sir. You are the past, aren't you? You have been to college, university or if not to university something or other, all your skill. If you are a first class carpenter - not you, sir - if you are a bureaucrat, or a business person or something or other, if I want to be a good carpenter, I apprentice myself to a master carpenter, and I have to learn the quality of the wood, the grain, the beauty of the wood, and I have to learn how to use the instruments which I have on the wood. Right? That is, acquiring knowledge which becomes memory. Right? And then I am a carpenter. Do you understand? As you are a business man or a government official, you accumulate. So you are the past. There is no difficulty in this. I don't know why you are resisting it. You may think you are god, that is all right, that is also past, that is part of your tradition. So you are the past. And that past meets this challenge which I am challenging you now, and says, yes, may be, may be. And tomorrow you will be like this unless you change now. So the future is now.
Q: How do I know the future? I don't know whether I will be envious tomorrow or not, I don't know.
K: You will be, unless you have an accident. You are going home. You have your things at home. That is just a theory. You will be here tomorrow, unless you have an accident and I hope you don't. But you know the future because what you are now is the future. Of course. I know you don't like this. The future is in the present. Right? I am envious now and I will be envious tomorrow. Right? Tomorrow is the future. If I am envious now I will be envious tomorrow, but if I stop envy, therefore tomorrow is now. For god's sake see this. So, is it possible to end envy now? You don't think about these things. I am violent now, as most human beings are violent. They talk about peace and all that nonsense but human beings are very violent. It is so. There is no question about it. Now, non-violence is in the future - because you are violent now. Therefore, non-violence has no meaning. Can you stop violence now? If you don't stop it now, tomorrow you will be violent. So tomorrow is now. Right? So is it possible to end time, which is tomorrow, now? I am violent - if I cannot end violence instantly now, I will be violent tomorrow, slightly modified, but I will still be violent. Right? And humanity has said, we'll gradually become violent, less violent. Right? Which is nonsense. Are you surprised at this?
So, can you end everything now? Say, you are attached, as you are, attached to your beliefs, your gods, to your family, attached, you know, hold on. If you are attached today you will be attached tomorrow, naturally. Right? Unless death comes and says, sorry, that's the end of it. I know you believe in reincarnation, that is a different matter. But even death comes and says, sorry, you can't carry things away with you. You have to drop them. So can you drop attachment now, to be utterly free from attachment? To your beliefs, to your gods, to everything you are attached to, otherwise tomorrow you will still be attached. So change is not through gradation, through gradual time. Change is instant, immediate. That is freedom; not to achieve freedom next life or two years later. This requires a great deal of application to your daily life. Therefore your ideas, your theories, your ideals have no meaning. You believe in non-violence, don't you? But you are all terribly violent people. So what does belief in an ideal matter at all? It has no meaning. What has meaning is what you are now, and that can be changed instantly, not tomorrow because tomorrow is now.
We should also talk over together very, very seriously - not that we have not been serious - what is a religious brain, mind. What is a religious mind? Sir, we have talked for an hour and a quarter. You want to go on with this?
K: It is easy for me to talk. Please this is a very serious subject, like fear it requires a great deal of enquiry. Because the religious brain - to find out what is a religious brain, one must be free of all organized religions. Naturally. Free of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikh, Christianity and all the variety of so-called religious attitudes and practices, and all that. Now, will you be free of all that - can you be free of all that? Really enquire very deeply what a religious brain is.
Q: Not be a Hindu or a Buddhist, one can be a broad-minded man.
K: It sounds very nice. That is what the United Nations say - you can all be nations together, but keep your own particular nonsense. Is that so, is that a fact?
K: Just listen to it sir, you say yes, is it a fact. I am a devout Christian, suppose - a devout practising Catholic. Do you know what that means? I believe in the Virgin Mary going physically to heaven. That is one of the dogmas, I believe in that. You would call it nonsense. Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you? Why are you nervous about it? You would, for god's sake. You would say, what kind of stupid belief that is: anybody physically going to heaven, what is heaven. It sounds so silly - but I believe it. I devoutly am concerned with it. And you would say, yes, we will tolerate it - that is all. You can live in this country, but you are a Hindu, you have your own beliefs. There is a division between us. No? Right sir?
Q: You can have your own belief and I can have my belief.
K: That is it. Lovely! I am an American, you are a Russian - keep it, and we are willing to kill each other. No? So I stick to my belief, you stick to your belief. And we call this religion. When you are faced with facts you doubt it, you keep quiet. So, sir, belief is dividing, will you drop your belief because division brings conflict between you and me? Because I have no belief. What is fact is important, not belief.
Q: Can non-belief be a belief?
K: Oh no, the end of belief is the end of belief. Not belief and the ending of it, I end it.
So to enquire very deeply into what is a religious brain, because the brain - the brain, that is that which is within the skull, is the centre of all thought. Right? The centre of all emotions. Centre of all your reactions. Centre of all your beliefs. All your fears, all your sorrow, all your depression. It is the centre of every physical activity. No? Right? Do you see that fact? I am not a scientist, a scientist would explain this to you very carefully. It is so, whether you like it or not. You may believe there is atman, there is soul, there is god in you, but it is still within the skull. You may imagine or say, god is perfect, it is still within the skull. Right? I am not trying to convince you of anything. Don't be convinced. I am not interested.
So, to enquire into what is a religious brain one must be free of all belief. If you have a belief you are attached to that belief, therefore, you are not free. It is like going out into the middle of the river with a rope around you. Right? I am attached to the bank and I go safely, then I am not free. So, we are tethered to a belief therefore there is no freedom in that - you are tethered to some concept. So there must be freedom from all religious concepts, beliefs, faiths, images,idols - all that man has put together through fear. Right? Will you do that? I am not asking you to do it. I don't care. If you are really enquiring into what is a religious mind, brain you have to be free. Obviously. It's like a man in prison wanting freedom. He can want it, but he must leave the prison. Then he will never ask what is freedom. Right? Unless we are free from the bondage which we have created for ourselves we cannot possibly enquire into something that demands tremendous energy and freedom. That is the first thing.
So the religious mind or brain must be free completely, from all attachment. And very, very few people want this kind of stuff. Very, very few people are serious enough to go into this matter. They would like to talk about it, play with it like children. But a childish mind can never understand this.
Perhaps we had better stop today, we will go on and enquire into what is a religious human being, what is a religious life, tomorrow, shall we? We had better stop now.
Rajghat 1st Public Talk 11th November, 1984
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