Madras 2nd Public Talk 10th December 1972
May we go on with what we were talking about yesterday afternoon? We were saying how very important it is to be very honest, not to some idea or to some behavioral pattern but the honesty and integrity that comes when you are completely faced with the facts as they are. This honesty and integrity is so necessary as we are going more and more deeply into the nature of our behaviour, our moral conduct, love, death and that extraordinary thing that we have been calling meditation. To penetrate into all this without any kind of illusion, any kind of deception, the mind must be capable of complete honesty to see exactly what it is.
Corruption is the pattern of our behaviour, as it is. Corruption, I am using that word in the sense, when the mind functions in fragments, when the mind is broken up into a political activity, separate from religious activity, from the family activity, or the artist separated from the business man, the religious man and so on. Where there is this fragmentation taking place there must be corruption. I am using that word literally, which means to break up. And when the mind lives in various categories of activity, various departments of thought, ideals, there must be corruption. Corruption ends only when the mind is integral, whole, not broken up.
We were saying yesterday afternoon, weren't we, that seeing what the world is, not an abstract ideal of a world but the actual world of our daily living, in our daily relationship, there is a great deal of sorrow, misery, confusion, occasional spurts of joy. And society as it is needs tremendous reform. And (song of bird) - nice bird, I hope you all heard it - and when the reformer himself is corrupt in the sense I am using that word then society will be corrupt. And our present political, economic, social, business, artistic world is corrupt because it doesn't take into consideration the whole structure of man, his whole nature. And we are concerned with the totality of the human mind, not one fragment of it. If you are concerned with one fragment, whatever it be, there must be division, conflict, and from it a great deal of deception, which is in its very nature corrupt. Right? Again we are concerned with actually what is, not with what should be, or what might be, or with the transformation of `what is' but merely concerned actually with the facts as they are.
It's quite a nice evening, isn't it, I hope you enjoy it as much as I am enjoying it, the lovely birds, the trees, the leaves moving in the breeze and the strange quietness that comes of an evening before the sun sets. There is great beauty. And to see that and feel that great beauty the mind must be utterly total, unbroken, not fragmented. And we are trying - or rather we are together this evening exploring, which means communicating together over this problem of thought, its extraordinary capacity, technologically and psychologically, inwardly what misery, confusion, strife, despair it creates. And we are sharing this together, therefore you are not merely listening to a speaker, agreeing or disagreeing, which is comparatively easy, or being entertained. Entertainment takes many forms - religious, when you go to the temple or the church, when you go off chasing some guru and accepting his authority, when you take a drink, when you do any kind of ritual, those are all entertainments, in the name of god, in the name of peace, in the name of social reform. Because what we are concerned with, and man should be concerned, in bringing about a radical transformation in the whole structure of the mind, and when you are concerned with that totally every form of entertainment comes to an end, and therefore the mind becomes totally serious. And being serious it cannot deceive itself.
There are two varieties of seriousness, or perhaps many varieties of seriousness. The man who believes in something, identifies himself with that belief and committed to that belief, he is considered very serious. He is as the neurotic who believes in some fantasy and identifies himself with that fantasy and is totally sincere. Such people are not serious. A mind that is serious is a mind that is concerned with things as they are, with the misery, confusion, poverty, riches, the social appalling things that are happening in the world. Those are the facts. And a serious mind is concerned in going beyond that fact. And that's what we are going to discuss throughout these talks and discussions.
What is necessary is to have energy. We cannot go beyond `what is' if we have not sufficient energy. We waste our energy in speculation, in abstractions, in trying to go beyond `what is'. Please understand this because I think it is very important. Thought has brought about this condition in the world of which we are a part, we are the world and the world is us. That's an absolute irrefutable fact. And thought which is so capable, which is so alert, which has such efficiency in action, has brought about division between man and man. Again that's a fact. The religious, economic, social, political, governmental division. Now the question is: can the mind go beyond that, beyond this division and therefore beyond conflict? And to observe the fact you need energy. And this energy is wasted when you have an ideal. Please follow this a little bit, give your attention to it, because we are journeying together. When you have an ideal it is a wastage of energy, because the ideal takes the mind away from the fact. That's a wastage of energy. When the mind wishes to go beyond the fact, that's a wastage of energy. When the mind tries to control the fact, that's a wastage of energy. When the mind suppresses the fact, the `what is', then that's a wastage of energy. In this wastage of energy most minds are living. Right? Please, watch your own minds, not merely listen to the words because the word is not the thing, and the description is not the described. The described is your mind. And the described is the wastage of your mind. So don't get caught in the description or in the word but watch your mind, how it wastes its own extraordinary energy. It is not, how to stop this energy being wasted but rather to observe the wastage of energy. To observe. But in that observation if you say, `I must not waste energy and therefore I must control', then that very control becomes a wastage of energy. You are following all this?
Suppose you have a belief, and unfortunately most people have beliefs, opinions, judgements, conclusions, you hear the speaker say, that's a wastage of energy, he shows you the reason - the reason being that the mind refuses to face the fact as it is. It is educated not to face facts as they are. Through our education, social reform, society, culture, religion, all that has brought about a conditioning of the mind that accepts wastage of energy through these various channels. When the mind sees that it is a wastage of energy, a belief, then the reaction to that is, try to control or suppress or do away with that belief. That suppression, control, or doing away with that belief is a wastage of energy. Whereas if you observed the whole structure of belief, the nature of belief, what lies behind belief, the observation reveals the structure and nature of belief. Then there is no waste of energy. Right? Are we sharing this together? Not verbally, but actually are you doing this? Because we are going to go into something much deeper, and you need all your energy and attention to go into this.
So can the mind observe the fact, the fact being `what is', your violence, your aggression, your desire for power, success, security, that is `what is'. Can you observe that without any movement of thought which is conditioned to accept the various forms of escapes from the fact, and therefore wasting energy? Am I making myself clear? Yes? If I am not I will go into it again, over and over and over again until you are clear. Because, please, do see this, I am not your teacher, you are not my disciples - thank god, I wouldn't have you! Not because you are silly or grotesque, but to follow somebody is the greatest corruption, in that there is no love, in that there is separation, conflict, brutality, a hierarchical system of thought and action. Whereas what we are trying to do is to think out these things together, to be serious together, to unravel this very complex problem of living together, because we have created together this misery in the world, and together we have to undo it, not you alone, or I alone, together we have to do it. And this is not possible if you are not clear, logical, sane in your own observation. Therefore you become your own teacher, your own disciple, therefore you don't follow anybody. Then the burden is all yours. And you may not be willing to carry that burden. Whether you are willing to carry it or not, it is yours, you can't shirk it, you can't try to escape from it, it is yours. And nobody in the world, including specially the speaker can remove that burden from you. You have to go into that burden yourself, look at it, observe it, cherish it, be committed totally to understand it.
So the mind, being conditioned to the wastage of energy, is incapable of meeting actually `what is'. And to meet `what is' you need great energy. It is this great energy that goes beyond or resolves `what is'. Right? Look, sir, culture, I am using that word `culture' in its broadest sense, has conditioned the mind to be envious. Envy means measurement; we measure ourselves with another, compare ourselves with another, try to imitate, follow. So our minds are conditioned to live and function in the field of envy. That is a fact, both in the so-called religious world, when the priest wants to become a bishop, when the disciple wants to becomes the great master, when the business clerk wants to become the manager. So this whole conditioning of our culture is based on envy. You may ideologically say, one should not be envious, but the fact is, you are envious. Now to go beyond that fact, which means to be totally free of envy, is to observe how the mind regards this reaction called envy. How does it observe? It observes with another fragment of a mind which is conditioned, which says, you must not be envious, therefore control it, and if you would come near god or whatever that is, you must not be envious. So one part of your mind is envious, conditioned through culture, another part of your mind says, you must not be envious, again conditioned by a culture, so there is in this contradiction, and this contradiction is a wastage of energy.
So can the mind - please do this, as you are listening do it with your heart and with your blood, with your passion do it and you will see what happens - can the mind which has been divided to be envious and not to be envious, the `not to be envious' is not a fact but the fact is envy. Now can you, can the mind look at that envy without its opposite, which is not to be envious? Or to control envy, or to suppress envy. All these factors of suppression, control, denial or rationalizing envy is a wastage of energy. Are we travelling together? Come on, sirs. So can your mind observe envy without any contradiction, without its opposite? Just stop a minute there.
Is there an opposite at all? You are following all this? There is the opposite, man, woman and so on, but we are not talking of that, we are talking of psychological opposites: courage is the opposite of cowardice. Right? And we are questioning whether there is an opposite at all. And when you have an opposite there is choice, discrimination between this and that. And when the mind is very clear, what needs there be to have choice? Please, go into it yourself. So I am questioning as an investigator, I say there is no opposite at all. There is only `what is'. And therefore no choice. Come on, sirs. Whereas all your tradition, all your conditioning is the battle between the opposites: when you are passionate, sexual, to have the conditioning which says, you must not. The opposite has its root in `what is', otherwise the opposite is not. I wonder if you are meeting all this.
So there is only `what is' and therefore there is no choice, there is choice only when there are two or three things. Look, sir, when you are uncertain of a road you ask somebody, in that there is choice, you can take that road, or that road, or that road, but when you know the road there is no choice, you go straight. Choice only exists when there is confusion. And where there is confusion there must be conflict. So when you are observing the fact there is no confusion, no choice, no opposite. Do you see the beauty of this, sirs, do you? This is logical, you follow, this is not something that you have to think about, it is so. That is, envy is man's conditioning, for various reasons which we don't have to go into now. He doesn't know how to go beyond it without effort. So he hopes by having an opposite and using the opposite as a lever he can go beyond it. You are following all this? Oh, come on, am I talking to people that are not following? Please do. Look, sir: if one is a coward, that's `what is', why do you want courage, why do you develop courage? It is because you do not know how to deal with cowardice, if you knew how to deal with cowardice and go beyond it you don't have to have courage. You follow? But we are trained to develop courage because we don't know how to deal with cowardice. And I say, that is a wastage of energy because you have invented the opposite and you are caught between `what is' and its opposite. Therefore when you observe only `what is' there is no opposite, and therefore no conflict. Have you understood this? Have I made myself clear? Yes?
So thought has created division between you and me, we and they, the division between the business man, the politician, you know all that, the fragmentation of life is brought about through thought seeking security in different ways. And thought has not been able to go beyond its own structure, its own fragmentations. Now I am going to take one factor of the process of thought which has brought about this fact and go into it completely with you. The fact is that most human beings are frightened. Fear is there, in their hearts, in their minds, in their bodies, they are involved totally in fear; losing a job, losing your wife, your husband, afraid of death, afraid of not succeeding, afraid of so many things. Aren't you? Aren't you? No? Aren't you? Oh, for god's sake, you are frightened, you are frightened human beings, of being alone, frightened of not having psychological security or physiological security, of failure, of having no love, of not being loved, fear of loneliness, despair, not going beyond this everlasting sorrow and strife, and ultimately there is the fear of death. There is conscious fear as well as unconscious fear. Are you aware of all this, sirs? You know it, don't you? Nobody has to tell you that, do they? Do what you will, go to temples, go to gurus, do anything you will, that flower will keep on blossoming. Right? Whether you know it consciously or unconsciously it is there.
Now the mind living in fear becomes violent. Have you noticed that? Violent in speech, violent in so many ways. Violence is not merely physical violence, violence is conformity. You understand? When you conform to a pattern there is fear involved and therefore there is violence. Right, sir? So fear is one of our major factors in life, which darkens our life, which destroys, creates illusion, brings about neuroticism. Now can the mind go beyond fear? And to go beyond fear you need great energy. Right? And you cannot have that tremendous energy if you are wasting it by running away from it, trying to suppress it, trying to analyse it, trying various ways and means to overcome it. Right? So you have to observe it. And you have to observe it without any opposite, without a mind that has a fragment which is looking at fear. Right? That is, can you observe fear? What is fear? How does fear arise? Because if you solve this problem completely, if your mind is totally free from fear, do you know what takes place? You are the most marvellous human being, you are the flower, you are the light, you are the beauty. But a mind that is frightened is a dull mind, a stupid mind, a mind that lives in others, books and values and so on. So it is absolutely necessary for a man who is serious, for a man who is really religious - not the phoney religions that you have - a man who is really religious has no fear. And therefore we must understand it completely.
Now we are going to take a journey together into this. You understand, sir, together, take your fear, which you have, become conscious of it as you are sitting there, whatever it is - your losing a job, fear of being alone, fear of loneliness, fear, you know, of public opinion, god knows what your fears are. Take one of them, observe it. Can you observe it without any wastage of energy - which is to suppress it, go beyond it, naming it, all that - merely to observe. Which means give your total attention at the moment - at this moment, when you have invited fear, which is there, you have exposed it and say, `I am going to look'. So when you are looking at it, what is the cause of fear? Not analytically investigating the cause. You understand this? Ah, I see you don't. What ignorant people we are. We are other people's knowledge, other people's information, we have never gone into our hearts and minds ourselves.
I said just now, what brings about fear. And I said, don't look for the cause, don't analyse fear to find out the cause. The word `analysis' means the breaking up. When you analyse there is the analyser and the analysed. Right? The analyser - the analyser is the observer, is the experiencer, is the accumulated knowledge of the past, he is the analyser, and he separates himself from fear and says, `I am going to investigate, analyse what is the cause of fear'. You follow? In that there is division: the anlayser and the anlaysed. And therefore in that division there must be conflict. Right? You see that, don't you? And also when the analyser analyses, his analysis must be total and complete each analysis, otherwise he takes over what he has analysed, with that memory he analyses the next time, therefore all analysis is fragmentation. I wish you would see this. Therefore you will never analyse. Therefore you will be free of the burden which man has imposed upon himself which is to analyse his psyche, his inward states.
I am pointing out, not teaching you, but together we are investigating, we are showing, we are asking, what is the nature of fear, why does fear exist at all? You can find ten different causes, according to the specialists, the professionals, you know, many, many reasons they give you, but the reasons, the causes are not the fact. The fact is fear. Now I am asking, why does fear come? What is the source of it? You are asking too, are you? What is the source of it? The source of it is time. You understand this? I have a job, I am afraid I might lose the job, I haven't lost it but I am afraid I might lose it tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. So fear arises where thought is, which is time. Get it? You get it, sirs?
So time, thought is the factor of fear. Whether that fear is deeply rooted in the unconscious of which you are not aware, or consciously aware of your fear, that where the mind functions within the field of time there must be fear. The field of time is thought. Do get this thing. I wish I could give it to you. Because you see, sirs, if you understand this, you will leave this evening without a breath of fear and then you will know what love is, but not before because suffering and love don't go together, and fear brings suffering. So time is the factor of fear: death, which is over there, I am living, time involved, you follow, the postponement, the evasion, all that is brought about by thought, and thought is time because thought is the response of memory which is the past.
So to observe fear - please listen to this - without the movement of thought which has been conditioned to suppress fear, to observe completely fear without any movement of thought, which is past, which is time. Can you do it? Do it as you are sitting there. To observe completely. Then you will see that conscious and unconscious fear, however deeply rooted, however secreted, however hidden, is totally exposed. And that's one of our principles of life, which is fear. And the other principle is pleasure, the pursuit of pleasure. Haven't you noticed how you pursue pleasure? Sexual, pleasure of a good meal, pleasure of seeing a marvellous picture, the pleasure of a sunset, the delight of looking at a tree that is so alive, gentle, full of beauty, at that moment there is great delight. And that moment is gone, then thought comes along and says, `How lovely it was, I would like to have that repeated again'. Right? Haven't you noticed all this? Your sex, on which you life is also based, is this pattern of the pursuit of pleasure. We are not saying pleasure is wrong, we are only pointing out the nature of pleasure, which is an incident that may give you great delight at the moment, unsurpassing joy, a thing that cannot be invited that comes in a moment of beauty, sacredness, then thought says, `How extraordinary that was, how beautiful, I must repeat it'. And man is pursuing, hunting after this all the time. Which is, again, the movement of thought. Thought says, `I have had that extraordinary delight yesterday' - whatever it is, and insists on having it today. The insistence of a past delight by thought is the pursuance of pleasure. Where pleasure is denied thought becomes violent. Haven't you noticed if you don't get your accustomed meal how angry, irritable you get?
So thought - just see the picture, sir, don't do anything about it, just look at it - thought is playing this game all the time. The ultimate pleasure is what you call god, what you call enlightenment. It is pleasure. As you cannot invite joy, so you cannot possibly invite enlightenment. So when you see this, see the whole picture, and to see that whole picture you need tremendous energy. You understand? And then you will see that envy, which has been the major factor of our life, which has bred so much conflict, misery and pain - because envy is measure, measuring yourself against somebody - when the mind is without measure there is no greed. You understand, sir?
Now for the mind to be in that movement in which there is no comparison, it has to face envy totally and completely, and it cannot face it if the mind wanders away by trying to overcome it. You have got it? You have understood it? Are you doing this? Or waiting to do it tomorrow? There is no tomorrow, there is only the moment when you listen to the truth of things. Therefore it is very important how you listen. You cannot listen if you are comparing what somebody has said with what is being said, you cannot listen if you are impatient, if you are trying to say, `Well, I must have this energy to go beyond', you are not listening if you do not love that which you are listening to. If you are listening to the crows that are calling before they go off to sleep, as they are calling in the distance, if you listen totally, then you learn the beauty of the night and the clarity of sound. And learning is not a movement in time, learning is at the moment of actual listening and learning. You have understood this? Sirs, do it then you will see that a mind that is free of envy, fear, that is not pursuing pleasure - pleasure, enjoyment, delight is one thing, and the pursuit of them is another, the pursuit of them brings misery, mischief, confusion, but the mere enjoyment of a sunset, of a beautiful face, and a beautiful movement of a tree, in that moment pleasure doesn't come in, it is only thought brings it in as it brings in fear. So if you can look at all this then the mind is totally free from fear. Then you will put away all your gods, then you will be out of the stream, a totally different human being.
Do you want to ask any questions? Or this is enough? This quietness, this attention which perhaps has been stimulated, or this attention which you yourself have gathered now, you will perhaps like to remain quietly and not ask questions. If that is so, that's all right. So may I then go this evening?
Madras 2nd Public Talk 10th December 1972
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